Episode 85: Jake Ernst
We Live In a Mad World with Therapist and Writer Jake Ernst
This week Samantha chats with Jake Ernst (@mswjake), writer, social worker & psychotherapist from Toronto. He is the Clinical Director of Straight Up Health which is a mental health clinic for young people and their families. Jake works from a trauma-informed framework and believes healing happens in connection with safe & caring for others.
The two discuss how to support ourselves and others best during this difficult time and what it means to be living in a mad world with so many exterior factor affecting our mental health.
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Podcast Script
Sam: [00:00:00] Monetize your passion for wellbeing with the job you love every single day and design a happy life from a healthy lifestyle. What's up guys. This is spin, skin and other addictions, a podcast by me, Samantha E Cutler of The Fit Fatale. Each week. I'm going to take you deeper into the world of wellness with entrepreneurs who are building brands designed to better your life.
[00:00:27] You'll be hearing from fitness gurus, medical specialists and influencers in the world of fitness, health, beauty, and nutrition. I hope you guys love it. Let's sit down.
Jake: [00:00:42] We're allowed to be a little bit anxious, right? Like we're allowed it's okay. That we feel this way. And it's our environment also that does a large number on us. And we live in a mad world. We aren't just mad individuals,
Sam: [00:00:55] Your listening to spin, skin and other addictions episode number [00:01:00] 85 this week, guys, I have Jake Ernst on the show.
[00:01:04] I am so excited to have him. First of all, he is a therapist and writer right here in Toronto. He has an incredible Instagram where he's talking about real things around mental health, around therapy, around controversy of whether therapy should be free or who it's accessible to or how it changes our lives.
[00:01:25] And he's also the host of the podcast This Isn't Therapy where he's talking all about different mental health impacts and aspects of our lives, but what's super cool about Jake is I actually met him because we were both featured in a Toronto life article, all about wellness creators on the gram that were sharing content around mindfulness, mental health, therapy and just breaking down those stigmas on Instagram.
[00:01:48] And so I was humbled to be amongst such incredible creators, all of which worthy of being here on the podcast. But Jake, especially I was dying to have him on because the content he posts [00:02:00] is so real and therapy has become such a taboo subject, which is strange. I grew up in a household where you don't get therapy, you don't talk about therapy and it wasn't the norm. And I think that was part of our generation shift from our parents to where we are now. And so I love this conversation that Jake and I have, again, it is very much our opinions. Jake is obviously a licensed therapist. And so he is a professional, but both of us are just sharing our personal opinions in this conversation.
[00:02:30] So do not take this as any advice what you should do. But I do think that it's extremely helpful to have a listen and to just hear his opinions on what's going on with mental health and social media right now. What's going on with this pandemic, how it's impacted everyone and a few different things that can impact us to maybe make a change towards the better.
[00:02:49] So again, I hope you enjoy this episode. I would love if you do, to share a rating, a comment, anything within Spotify or the iTunes app, [00:03:00] and here is Jake. Hello, and welcome to another episode of spins skin and other addictions. Today, I am joined by Jake Ernst, who is a therapist writer and the clinical director of Straight Up Health.
[00:03:15] His Instagram is incredible resource for so much information around mental health, inspiration, and just realness about not always having to be perfect and showing up okay. Which we were just talking about when we jumped on the phone today to record this. So I'm sure we'll dive into that more. Jake and I had the pleasure of meeting because we were both in a Toronto Life article, which is just one of those crazy things.
[00:03:40] And I fell in love with your Instagram and your vibe. And I knew we had to bring this to my community via the podcast. Jake, thank you for being here.
Jake: [00:03:50] I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. My name is Jake Ernst and I am a therapist in Toronto, and I do a lot of really [00:04:00] fun therapy things into the city, but I also a lot of content for social media. And as you were saying, I do a lot of writing, which is a really deep passion of mine. I've found so much healing and so much growth through writing. And so that's just been like a really amazing space for me to get to explore some of the topics that are important to me.
[00:04:18]In each moment, and then as a therapist, I do a lot of that work inside of the therapy room. And I have always thought why does it just have to be inside of the therapy room? Like why can't we have these conversations outside? And on my own podcast , that's what I talk about pulling things outside of the therapy room.
[00:04:32]And then on Instagram, that's what I write about, but just think it's so important.
Sam: [00:04:36] It is so important and that we have those conversations, especially now, I think the past year has amplified that in so many different ways, how important it is for us to have those real conversations. Excuse me and you're doing it so well on social media.
[00:04:52] One thing that you posted that I just, I was just lurking and stalking your Instagram, but something that [00:05:00] resonated with me, which by the way, if you haven't yet go ahead in our show notes and check him out and give Jake follow because it's going to be like, I just find it whenever your content comes up for me, it's something good in my feed. But that's real at the same time. Not. Oh, my gosh, everyone be okay, everything's fine. Let's be positive or everything's shitty. It's somewhere in between, which makes me feel really safe. You know what you're doing as a therapist, but you give off content the way you write in some, in an, a manner that feels really safe and something you just wrote about was.
[00:05:33] If you didn't have to pay for therapy, would you go? And I was like, Oh my gosh, would anyone say no to that? What, where did that come from that conversation? And how strongly do you feel towards that? Cause that was a big one that hit me.
Jake: [00:05:49] It was a big one that hit you and a big one that hit many because they think it taps into that really innate need that we have within each of ourselves, which is like a [00:06:00] desire to be seen a desire to be known and desire, to be loved, to desire, to be cared for.
[00:06:05]And one of the big barriers, unfortunately, like just that I face in the therapy space is financials is money, right? I hear a lot of people who say I would love to go and receive therapy or participate in therapy. But one of the big barriers is unfortunately money. When under our health care system in Canada, it's mental health care is privatized.
[00:06:24] So we in a lot of ways, but there's also many community in nonprofit programs. Of course I do provide that work, but largely, there is a big section of our mental health care system that is privatized, which means that people have to pay for it. And so I do a lot of musings on social media, imagining a world that I want to be a part of and trying to build alongside at the very same time of having those thoughts.
[00:06:45] I'd like to try to build that world. And so when I think about, What are some of the barriers to accessing therapy? I think about what would therapy look like if we didn't have the barrier of having to pay for it in place? And it actually sparked a pretty intense discussion in the comment section of that actual [00:07:00] post, because there were many people that were like haircuts aren't free.
[00:07:03]What do you mean? Do you mean like therapist should charge $0 and shouldn't get paid? That's not. Okay. And so I think it really kinda did spark that really innate a sense of ourselves that is like why I need to control things, I need to like package things in a certain way that that I'm familiar with.
[00:07:18] And I think that particular post itself like really did highlight that challenging the current system that's in place is not always the best for a lot of people. I think a lot of people are no, we paid for therapy, right? No a therapist should get paid for it.
[00:07:33]And I asked the question from an honest place, of course, but I asked it from a place of what would happen if like it was actually, if healthcare was actually free and universal, what would happen if the government paid for it and people didn't have to.
Sam: [00:07:44] And successful thought leaders don't do so with the intention of only a positive outcome and a positive reaction.
[00:07:51] And I think that's what makes your content so successful is you're asking the question, you're sharing your [00:08:00] thoughts, but in a very honest and I guess diluted way. Knowing that you are a therapist and that there is a lot of ways that can be interpreted on social media. You weren't, causing an uproar and protesting in the street for free therapy.
[00:08:14] It was just creating that conversation and I do believe that's where it creates where creatives and successful thought leaders stem from having those uncomfortable conversations and we've seen that this past year.
Jake: [00:08:25] Absolutely. And I've really. Leveraged my social media page physically as a way to do that dance and to make space for discomfort and make space for honest conversations, but also like poke at the system a little bit. And really highlight especially I think this pandemic has really done that for us. It's really allowed us to poke holes and things and ask the question about why are we doing it that way?
[00:08:47] Like why do we keep doing it that way? If it doesn't work for everybody, it's that type of questioning that just as like a critical thinker and someone who Thinks pretty deeply. Those are questions that I enjoy asking and I understand that not [00:09:00] everyone likes being asked them.
Sam: [00:09:01] You don't ever stop asking those questions with your community because they're very much appreciated.
[00:09:06]I'll speak for myself, but I'm sure by so many, so I hope that never dims your light in any way. Cause I know it's tough sometimes on social media.
Jake: [00:09:14] It is. And I have to keep on reminding myself That it's my house. I would never let someone come into my house and let someone speak to me the way that some people speak to me on social media. And it's, my page is my house and I create the rules and not have okay.
Sam: [00:09:29] I absolutely love that. My page is my house. I'm going to have to take that with me through the weekend and throughout for the future, because that's a really useful tip, even for those listening, who might be curious about the topic, but are maybe more in the creative space like myself who primarily are creating content.
[00:09:49] It's a very tough time on social media and looking at your space as your house would you put that out there and would you allow someone to speak to you like that? If not, I don't think so. I think most people would show them the door.
Jake: [00:10:01] Exactly. And one of one of my very good friends who actually met through social media, her name is Allyson Dinneen and she runs the page @notesfromyourtherapist, which is a very brilliant page.
[00:10:11] I really highly recommend it if you don't know it. But yeah. So Allyson, she was the one that told me about a year ago. Because I went to her and I just was confiding in her because someone had just messaged me after I was making like an Instagram story and I was talking and someone made a comment about my shirt and they said Oh, like that doesn't match.
[00:10:27] Like, why are you wearing that? And then I got another message. And when someone said, Oh, you say like a lot, like your Instagram stories are really hard to listen to. And I'm just wow, like people are reading, people are cutting. Like people are like really trying to, like, why would you say that?
[00:10:41] And so I went to her and just said, like, how do you deal with this sort of like feedback about your posts and about your work. And she just said to me you get to set boundaries on your page, you know that and I was like, I'll obviously I was like, I'll be, and it was, it's something that just I needed to hear the moment, but I didn't give myself permission to feel and to have, and I was like, Oh [00:11:00] yeah, you're right I do get to, I do get to tell, I do get to ignore that message, right? Like I do get to not respond to everything I do get to yeah. Yes. I do get to block people who come and come into my space and treat me like crap.
[00:11:14] Yeah.
Sam: [00:11:15] And it's the same thing with every entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur listening and yourself, Jake.
[00:11:20] We also we make our own schedule. We set those boundaries physically as well, and from a time perspective as well. And so we oftentimes find ourselves like, Oh, this person needs so much from me or I'm showing up in so many ways, but at the end of the day, you've agreed to it. And you do set those goals.
[00:11:36] Boundaries. And you can say no, and I, this is a reminder to myself, but I'm sure I see you nodding a ton. We all are so guilty of that, of just like this yes. Factor. And we have to have stronger boundaries in everything. But especially in social media and in business.
Jake: [00:11:54] Yeah. And if we use this, like that house analogy, boundaries are really, so boundaries are not about locking the [00:12:00] door and keeping everybody out or being like.
[00:12:02] Impenetrable to the sense that you don't accept accountability for your behaviour boundaries are really about showing people, like where are the windows and the doors of the house, right? They're they teach people like how to treat you and they teach people like where your limits are.
[00:12:16]That just feels really important to me of this is okay, and this is not, and that is something that I would never let like a friend speak to me in some of the ways that, that strangers speak to us on social media.
Sam: [00:12:30] And we don't hold them to the same standards. So let's take it back to the beginning here Jake.
[00:12:35]You're a very young guy, you relate to so many people, especially through social media, but being a therapist. Tell us a little bit about that story. How, and when did you realize that was your path and where you wanted to go? And what's a bit of your background before 2021, here we are.
Jake: [00:12:52] Yes, we are.
[00:12:53] We are here, we are right here. Which for some people if you're meeting us in this moment, it may not be a [00:13:00] fully fun experience for you. So I'm making space for all feelings and I'm making space for all of that, because I certainly feel a lot of the more stressful and uncomfortable feelings myself.
[00:13:09]I wanted to be a therapist because I, at a really young age, I. Learned about the power of stories and learned about the power of connection. And I just thought and it's interesting, like my mom from like really young, early age, she was like, you have this like white light around you.
[00:13:24] She always used to say that to me. And I never knew what that meant. And she's a pretty like spiritual person and she's really into like energy and stuff like that, but she was just you have a white light and I'm not sure what that means, but I think it means that you're going to help people.
[00:13:36]And so I had grown up and I always wanted to be a doctor because I was like, Oh, like science is fun. I like that. And then I went to university. I was like, Oh no, this is not for me. And partly because it was too micro, actually it was too small. I couldn't really grasp the concept of like very minute details.
[00:13:51] And so I started taking a lot of like sociology courses, psychology courses, and I was like, Oh, this is my jam. This is like my shit. And [00:14:00] so I was like, I just get to hear people's stories and study human behavior. Yeah, that sounds incredible. And so for myself, as someone who is also queer, I started to actually see the ways in which like different people are treated different ways just based on their identities.
[00:14:14] And just based on who they were and so I was like, okay this requires more attention. And so all throughout my life, another one significant kind of moment or a defining moment in my life was my dad passing away when I was in high school. And that was another moment that cued me into oh, this is important you need to pay attention here. And so I would say like life as a series of collected moments just has taught me along the way of like stories matter. There are defining moments that people have in their lives and some of those defining moments can help, can create unwellness in our lives.
[00:14:45] And so in a, in many ways I want it to help people unravel that a little bit. I wanted to help people. I have this image, I dunno if you've seen that like therapy meme, that's it's two people sitting across from each other. I'm talking about a fricking therapy meme. Like how weird [00:15:00] am I? It's the whole picture of two people sitting across from each other and it's supposed to be a visual description of what therapy is supposed to do.
[00:15:06] And above one of the per person, people is like a ball of yarn. It's knotted and on the other end is like the therapist like pulling out and like untying the knots and like unraveling the knot. And so I look at like therapy is that is it's just a series of us. The work is just like us unraveling the knots and untying all of the really messy parts of life and putting them back together again.
Sam: [00:15:29] And you had such a strong emotional intelligence at such a young age that you were able to recognize what you were going through. There was something there, like you said your dad passed away when you were really young, you said high school and the fact that you were able to, instead of close your doors and shut the world out, but actually recognize. And I'm sure there's much more to this story that you, that sounds like just as a disclaimer, and through this podcast, it sounds like it was a lot easier than it was, but I'm sure there's so much you worked through, [00:16:00] but that you were able to recognize that and say, okay, I'm feeling this pain, I'm working through this.
[00:16:05] There's so many people who will continue to have to go through this and work through this. And I know there's something there that's bigger than me.
Jake: [00:16:15] Yeah change is a teacher. And I learned that like really early on and I, that was actually the first one that realized, like how deeply we need each other.
[00:16:23] And that like really shocked me like that. I think that really scared me, like to the point of that. That's what it forced me to do. I think to take a closer look was this whole idea of like, when you lose people, it really does force you to take like an inventory around, like who matters? Who do you love?
[00:16:37] Who do you care about? Who cares about you? Who loves you, all that kind of stuff. And it just really does show me this really early on just the healing power of relationships and how much we need each other. And because we need each other so much, that just leads me to believe, like we can't give up on each other then.
[00:16:53]We can't give up on each other.
Sam: [00:16:55] Okay. There's something you wrote and if it's okay, I want to read it from one of your recent posts [00:17:00] and I feel like it ties into this conversation really well, where you wrote,
[00:17:03] "Making light of a situation, sugarcoating the truth, or forcing a silver lining might be your way of avoiding feelings. If you never learned another way of assessing or processing your emotions growing up."
[00:17:17] Woo. She's heavy.
Jake: [00:17:20] Oh. Holy shit. Yeah.
Sam: [00:17:24] I was physically feeling that one.
Jake: [00:17:28] Yeah that one, like you said, gets really heavy, especially if you don't know how to put that down. If, especially if you don't, if you carry that truth so deep within you, that it just weighs so heavily.
[00:17:40]I would say that a number of us experience that to it, to a degree where we have learned actually and we're pretty well-practiced. At shoving the feelings away and we have really creative ways of doing it. I think
Sam: [00:17:52] what are some of the most common misconceptions that we see around mental health?
[00:17:57] I think that's a big one that like [00:18:00] something you talk about as well as that everyone has mental health, not everyone has mental illness and those are very different things. And now the conversation of mental health is thrown around a lot. What are some of those misconceptions and how can we create that conversation to be more normal, like gut health. We throw out gut health all the time. It doesn't make us think that we have something wrong with our gut. We're just taking care of it. So what are some of those misconceptions that we can talk about today?
Jake: [00:18:25] I think one that I immediately think about is the misconceptions about therapy as well.
[00:18:30] I think a lot of people think that therapy is just advice giving that therapy is just like that place where you come in a therapist, like fills you up and then you walk away. Is this like change kind of person because you have all this new information. It's just, unfortunately, not as comfortable as that.
[00:18:47] It's it really is about under thing, some of those, like really the deep things that kind of are fluttering in the background, so to speak and because I think. And I'm not sure like how this resonates for [00:19:00] folks, but I think too many degrees, we just have such a feelings, phobic, society, and culture that we live in where, and I guess I'll give you an example of that.
[00:19:08] I just think that we're so much more comfortable thinking about our feelings versus actually feeling them. And we think that because we're thinking about our feelings that we're actually going to that like vulnerable place, but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. And I guess a really clear example of how that shows up is I think that we're so prone to access humor in certain ways.
[00:19:27] So we're more likely to actually tell a friend haha that's funny or type LOL before actually just laughing and before actually just like sharing the connective kind of experience of laughing together. And that's a really like clear example of how we think about feelings versus actually feeling them and in this whole like, obsession with thinking about things. I think that we get really caught up in what the work of therapy or the work of mental health actually is. Oftentimes people think that Oh, because I can think about it, I can dissect it more that I'm doing the work. And then I'm [00:20:00] like actually like making progress.
[00:20:02] And unfortunately thinking is just one piece of this pie. And unfortunately it creates a whole lot of stigma around accessing or exploring like mental health in a more meaningful way as you were talking about just in your question because it puts, it makes it so unaccessible when we create this standard, which sort of says that you have to be able to think in order to be good at therapy. But news flash there's no all-star therapy here. There's no one that like knocks it out of the park. There's no one that comes in there and you're like, Oh, I did that perfectly. And so in that sense, because of the comparison and competition culture, we also have people think that it's something to like master and think that it's something that they have to be good at.
[00:20:41]And we just don't like that. That's just not on the roster. That's not something that, no one's keeping score.
Sam: [00:20:47] And that makes me laugh just a little bit because my partner and I last weekend watched Analyze This and he had never seen it. And for those who are not part of my older age [00:21:00] generation, it might be a little bit younger and haven't seen it.
[00:21:01] It's I think it was like early, it was 2000 or something with Billy crystal and Robert de Niro. And, he's a mobster and he needs therapy because he's having panic attacks from. Shooting people and fighting and whatever else mobsters do. And he goes into therapy, talks to him once he's Oh, you're so good.
[00:21:17] You, and he's I'm fixed, I'm healed. And it just triggered that memory when you said, we assume we go in and we're good at it. Oh I fixed myself, and the whole movie, he goes on about how it's for his friend, that's the story. It's for his friend. It's not me. I'm tough.
[00:21:30] I would never need that. And here therapists, just get a great kick out of that movie.
Jake: [00:21:36] True. True, truly. Because I think it also busts a little bit of like therapy myths too, for the actual people who know what it's like. But it's interesting because often the current like narrative around mental health is like, Oh, mental health is physical health.
[00:21:49] So we have to care about it in the same way that we do about physical health. But they're actually like, so mental health is physical health because your brain is a part of your body. Like that is that's the [00:22:00] connection, but it's different in the sense of when you break a bone yeah, you go to a doctor and you get it fixed.
[00:22:06]But a lot of people think it's supposed to take some sort of mental strength in order to heal some of those like wounded parts of myself. And unfortunately, like we still do need like professional care and good relationships in our lives in order to heal those types of wounds.
[00:22:19]So it's important.
Sam: [00:22:22] Yeah. I resonate with that a lot. I used to be someone who was a lot more closed off and intimidated by therapy and not open to it. And a lot of people, this quite a few years ago, but a lot of people put it into more perspective and that same approach that it is.
[00:22:39] If we did have a broken wrist, you go see someone that specializes in helps that. And that's why I don't know where this comes from. And maybe you have some background on why therapy initially became taboo right out of the wheelhouse, like right away. It became so taboo when in reality, [00:23:00] if you actually just think about it, it is just going for taking care of, like you said, that wound in that part of your body.
[00:23:07]But for some reason, our society's so accustomed to, if we're strong, we don't need resources for our mental health. We don't need help beyond what we can provide. And do you know where that comes from in any way? I'm so curious.
Jake: [00:23:23] Yeah, I would say that overall, the root is sanism, sanism is like that form of oppression.
[00:23:30] That just says that it's bad and it's wrong to be quote unquote crazy or like mad, or to be seen as you don't have it altogether. To be sane, is the right one. And then to be insane is the bad one. So it creates a sort of dominant hierarchy around how are we supposed to behave as humans?
[00:23:51] And how are we supposed to act? How are you supposed to feel? How are you supposed to think? And every time we fall outside of those scripts, then it means that we're going crazy or we're losing our [00:24:00] mind or that we're mad. And so there's a whole like mental health perspective on this it's called mad politics and the study of madness.
[00:24:07] And so it it talks a lot about just the way that like, madness is actually constructed by our environment, right? The cultures that we live in create how well we are or how mad we are. And so it's, the mad movement really does focus on like we're allowed to be a little bit anxious, right?
[00:24:24] Like we're allowed it's okay. That we feel this way. And it's our environment also that does a large number on us. And we live in a mad world. We aren't just mad individuals. And so that's the way, one example of like the root cause of stigma, for example. So the root of stigma is saying is it's this whole idea that like to be seen as crazy as bad.
[00:24:44]That's a bad thing. And so we want to avoid that. And so a lot of some of the work that I even do just in the therapy room is like helping people see actually that these are normal responses to abnormal circumstances, right? These are normal reactions to abnormal events. Yeah.
Sam: [00:25:00] And just making, bringing that awareness to it as well. Like that it's not us. It's so many other factors around us. And I love what you said.
Jake: [00:25:08] Like many other factors.
Sam: [00:25:09] We live in a mad world. We're not just mad individuals. And I was just writing that down. As you were saying that I need to post that on my wall and reference back to it. Every time you have these moments of, weakness and cloudiness, where you start internalizing it so much more.
[00:25:25] I think, especially now as we're locked, At home still, we're you're, we're both in Toronto. I was gonna say of course, because of the article, that makes us think that it's just us in this.
Jake: [00:25:36] Absolutely. And maybe what I can add on that too, is this whole idea of if you think about a garden, and this is the analogy that I often use with clients is that like, when a flower doesn't bloom, you don't fix the F you don't blame the flower. You don't fix the flower, you change the environment, right? Like you add more different soil, you add more water, you change light. There are many different environmental factors.
[00:25:55] Just as you said that go into creating wellness for that flower. And so people are no [00:26:00] different. We're just, unfortunately we just have this brain that like creates a narrative and creates a story and what it all means.
Sam: [00:26:06] And how can we right now support ourselves. Of course therapy I'm sure is number one. If we feel that we need to have another resource to take care of our brain, take care of our mental health, but what are some ways that listeners can support themselves in this process right now while they're home?
Jake: [00:26:26] I would say that the current pandemic is creating such a high level of chronic stress for us.
[00:26:35]That is the place that we have to start. So the main difference, so stress is the feeling that we get when we have to adapt or where we're forced to grow. And so for example, a nice example may be like, if you go to the gym and your you're putting your body under stress so that it can grow stronger or you can grow muscle.
[00:26:52]And so stress is a natural reaction to being forced to grow and being forced to adapt. And unfortunately we are [00:27:00] being forced to grow and adapt at a rate that we haven't for probably our whole entire lives and we also don't get a break from it. So it's not just stress, it is chronic stress.
[00:27:10] And so we're not actually getting a break from all of the this stress that we're experiencing at such high levels. And so what we have to do is to force breaks. We have to force the slow down, we have to force some form of recovery. Just as we would, if we're going to the gym, we have to force the breaking of that stress cycle.
Sam: [00:27:29] And you're so it's so true. And you put it, I love how you speak about all of these matters because you put it into such a terms that make sense to everyone. Of course we have stress, that's why you take a vacation from work, but it's that area where you're forced to grow and be uncomfortable in work because you got a new position and there's a lot of stress and you're figuring out your new schedule, but then you get a break, but then you got the weekend, but then you leave your office and go home.
[00:27:53] And what we are going through, is chronic, it's not, it. There's no way to get away [00:28:00] from it. What are some forced breaks that or you take maybe you can share a little bit more about your personal routine rather than any other suggestions.
[00:28:09] I'll start
Jake: [00:28:11] right there. So having a routine is a way that we can force those breaks.
[00:28:15]When we don't have a routine, when we don't have any kind of schedule. Or when we're not governed by any kind of structure that can be really challenging and really hard on our system. I would say, so I guess, like on a scale there could be like micro examples of ways that we could take breaks.
[00:28:30] Anything from a five minute walk, if you're sitting around all day getting out for five minutes, like may just be the reset you need. And for some people they're not able to get away, especially if you have kids, if you're balancing so many, like life demands, like not everyone has the opportunity to step away from that chronic stress.
[00:28:47]Of course there's the very widely popular idea of self-care like taking space for you and time for you is important. I would say that one of my favorite micro breaks is the breath and using breath [00:29:00] work. I look at the breath as like the remote control for the body and I never I'm the type of person that I'm gonna be that therapist that.
[00:29:08] Other therapists would get mad at me for saying this, but I used to be that person that like thought of Oh, take a deep breath like that stupid. I'm not doing that. I used to be the type of person that's as a therapist too. I would tell my clients take deep breaths, this is really important.
[00:29:20] And then I wasn't really doing it myself. I didn't really incorporate any sort of like breathwork into my regimen at all. But then I did some research and I did some studying and I learned more actually about the importance of breath work and taking a deep breath. And I learned that there are a little like structure receptors, like on your lungs, actually that as your lungs expand and you actually take a deep breath that it actually cues your body into actually feeling safer, feeling more relaxed.
[00:29:45] And so it's not just like that you're getting more oxygen, which is amazing for our bodies, but it actually does signal that like chemical response that like, Hey, we're safe again. And you can slow down. You don't have to be so stressed and anxious because, so that's actually like the [00:30:00] function of why breath calms us down. So I've started my own breathwork I would highly recommend that people learn how to breathe. I could do a whole podcast episode on the actual, the proper way to breathe and the improper ways to breathe because it's just that important, it's that important for life.
[00:30:15]And so I would say that breath work is really powerful. And I guess maybe another one I would say is movement overall. Like we just know that movement is just so important for us. And again, I'm that kind of therapist again, that sort of sitting here, rolling my eyes at " Oh, like Jake saw the podcast talk, telling us to exercise" you know what?
[00:30:30] These are really like really easy responses for me to give, but I can't highlight enough, like the importance of moving our body and it doesn't have to be exercise. It can be something like tension release work. It can be something like a guided meditation that cues you until they actually just like opening and closing your shoulders and your chest.
[00:30:48]Moving the body and releasing tension helps us complete the stress cycle and we need, and that's really what that's really the answer to your question is any way that we can complete the stress cycle will help us to feel [00:31:00] more at ease in this moment.
Sam: [00:31:01] To break that up, and I really appreciate the conversation around breaths.
[00:31:05]When I do my meditations, we often talk about breathing through your lower belly as well, because as you said, our response and our stress levels react differently to our short breaths. We'll oftentimes we're breathing through our chest and then we see people saying, okay, take a deep breath. And they're still breathing through the top of their shoulders are going up.
[00:31:25] And they're like, squishing their face and in reality, we have to breathe through our lower belly to actually help regulate that nervous system and I love the conversation around breath. You also made me think of the book Breath by James Nester. I don't know if you've heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. And the whole conversation around how we've actually changed our physical face and our build because of the way we're breathing so differently than we were created as humans to breathe. And he has all sorts of different exercises within the book that people can try at home. And it super, super silly and funny doing. But [00:32:00] I think that's a really interesting conversation to look at as like mini breaks. And what is our breath today? How do we breathe?
Jake: [00:32:08] Oh, yeah. Like the power of the breath is just constantly astounding to me. Like I'm just and I guess maybe, as I'm showing us right now, like I think gratitude can also be and more kindness. That can be helpful too. Like I always, awe of the ways in which like my own breath can just really get control of the nervous system as you were saying.
Sam: [00:32:28] And something crazy. I don't know if you've probably done this with yourself or clients, but if ever your heart's racing, because you're really nervous about something, my partner, he meditates a lot and he's actually who got me into it and now I'm the one dragging him back into it. I think that's how it happens oftentimes in relationships, but he is a very big, every time I'm nervous or anxious, or even if it's just to jump on a podcast or anything. If you feel your heart racing and you take a deep breath and you hold for, six seconds or so, you [00:33:00] can actually feel your heart rate just go from pump pump to pump, like instantly. And it's just crazy.
Jake: [00:33:06] It's fascinating. It is fascinating. And in my therapy language, that's like that's tracking, right? Like you're tracking like those changes, like in your nervous system from, and from a somatic perspective, like that's so powerful.
[00:33:19] It is powerful.
Sam: [00:33:22] So what's something that I want to discuss on our podcast because I'm sure everyone at home is facing their own mental health struggles, but they're also trying to support the ones they love the most. And I think that's one of the hardest parts of the past. The past year during this pandemic is that we ourselves are internalizing everything individually.
[00:33:44] And we're in this madness, as you said, but we're also trying to support our friends, our family our emotional bandwidth is spread so thin. So how can people listening, take something away. Potentially supporting their loved ones, but also [00:34:00] still taking care of themselves because it's freaking hard.
[00:34:02]I'll be the first to say it because we give and we give, and especially if, you're like yourself, Jake, on social media or dealing with clients, it's even more giving all the time, but we do want to be able to support in constructive ways. So we're not burnt out and unable to help and be there for them, especially our partners, if that's who we're locked at home with.
Jake: [00:34:22] Yeah, absolutely. And I think in many ways it's if you are a helper, I think that. We're probably providing a lot of the same sort of functions that once a whole community would provide at one time. It's just so important to really name that and oftentimes we outsource a lot of that care to one or two people, and we say, this is your job.
[00:34:44] And I experienced that a lot just because as a helper in a helping profession, I get that a lot. When I do, when I see people for the first time, usually in my initial assessment, I will just as I'm getting to know them last, tell me about your family. Tell me about your friends. Tell me about social.
[00:34:58]And [00:35:00] oftentimes that will be the story that will come up. It's Oh yeah, the people in my life don't talk about this. We don't talk about these sorts of things like where I come from or in my family or with my friends. And so in many ways we are starved for that like emotional connection with people we care about.
[00:35:16]And we really do want to be seen and we want to be known. We want to be loved. We want to be cared for by those people. And I think the layer of the pandemic has really stretched us to the degree where we've just lost so many of our connections and not lost as in they don't matter anymore lost as in they just, haven't been front and centre on the types of priorities that we choose to make room for.
[00:35:39]And I guess it's a really difficult question because it's the balance of how do I care for myself and how much do I expect other people to care for me too.
Sam: [00:35:46] Or care for them too. I think that's, I, a little selfish with this question, but I do find that a struggle to like continuously support the people around you when you're also like I'm going through it, I'm In this [00:36:00] too, and I want to be there for you, but I need to be, it's that old sort of mentality.
[00:36:04] Like you got to love yourself before you can love someone else. The old tale of that.
Jake: [00:36:09] Yep. Absolutely. And I think that's a challenging, that's a challenging space to live in and take up just because I think that it creates this whole like expectations and that it may also force us into this this idea of betraying ourselves or betraying our own needs.
[00:36:24]In order to care for other people. First, before we care for ourselves. And I don't think that many of us are well-practiced and taking care of ourselves. So the degree of which like that, that the pandemic has really required of us. So it's, I guess it's a complex answer and you can hear me doing the dance of it's a tough one.
[00:36:40]That's a, it's a hard one because all I know this is true. We need each other. We need each other so very bad, we are a social species and we need connection. We cannot live without each other. And so the ways in which we are enforced into our homes, forced into isolation, forced into just doing things [00:37:00] by ourselves and forcing ourselves into our own routines.
[00:37:02] Like it makes sense that like this, like social falls to the wayside and it becomes more challenging to keep up with that when that isn't a part of our natural routine or a natural script that we've fallen into.
Sam: [00:37:13] And we're craving it. We're craving it. Like I literally go to the Starbucks drive through and there's five cars behind me and I'm like, hang on. I'm still talking to the barista. Cause she's she already gave me my coffee, but I'm talking about her shirt now because I need to talk to anyone.
Jake: [00:37:26] Yes, absolutely. Oh my gosh. That is it. That is it.
Sam: [00:37:31] I know. We're definitely all craving it and we need to find it in our own ways. Jake, I have had such a great conversation with you today, and I want to thank you so much for being here with me.
[00:37:43] Is there anything that you want to leave our listeners with today as something just any last wisdom that they can take with them from this podcast? And hopefully just implement a better day, a better week, a better something.
Jake: [00:37:57] I think as a therapist it. [00:38:00] It's always fascinating to me in which like, people always say Oh, like what you said, like really resonated with me, like what you said, has really impacted me.
[00:38:08]And the guidance that I always give around that is how do things change when you tell yourself all those things, right? Why did it take someone else to have to say them in order for it to be true? And so if there is anything that I said here today it's not that did resonate with you.
[00:38:23] It's not because I said it's actually just because you always knew it deep down that's what you need and that's who you are. And that's what you know, to be true. So never lose yourself and never lose like kind of that inner guidance and that inner wisdom that is really dying to to have a voice and to be heard. So I would say that don't forget who you are and don't give up on that voice because it's there.
Sam: [00:38:44] So beautifully said, Jake, thank you so much for your time. I know you're a busy man. Can you share with our listeners where they can find you if they want to follow along? And I will tag everything in the show notes.
Jake: [00:38:57] Yeah, absolutely. People can find me [00:39:00] @mswjake. I had this funny interaction with someone online the other day and he said how do you pronounce it? Is it miss wooed, Jake? And I was like, no, it's actually just my credentials. It's a social work title it's MSW, Jake. That's it, it's just three letters and my name.
[00:39:16]And so people can find me there. I am also the clinical director of trade of health. And so you can also find a set of straight up health.ca if you do want to get in touch for therapy things.
Sam: [00:39:25] Amazing. Thank you so so much. And I can't wait to share all of this information with our listeners.